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Justheretosaythis (December 31, 1969 at 11:59 pm)
cont2: Like I said there is a lot of confusion as to the actual history and meanings of these two very basic concepts. And understandably so, because they are words whose meanings are deliberately twisted and confused by politicians. I think that people have a tendency to believe that the two political parties have always represented the values they do nowadays however they have completely changed more than a couple times throughout history. There is no particular value set for either party.
Justheretosaythis (December 31, 1969 at 11:59 pm)
cont: the things in that list makes sense based on the current state of the Republican party however that party should not be confused with conservatism. The party was taken over by neo-con thinkers and religious socially conservative right wing activists. These things are very different from conservatism in the sense of a philosophy of government. Conservatism as a philosophy has always been associated with small intellectual movements generally having more progressive social views.
overmind25 (December 31, 1969 at 11:59 pm)
Well conservatism in the US has been mixed in with nationalism, racism, protectionism, traditionalism, theocracy etc and in some instances they are still part of modern conservatism. Some of these like protectionism and others can be said of liberals as well. Ron Paul and his brand of libertarianism is only part of the history of US conservatism. Really US conservatism and Ron Pauls version of government is still oppressive. He believes in states rights and local tyrannies.
Justheretosaythis (December 31, 1969 at 11:59 pm)
Well I'm not sure who Lysander Woods is, but I would have to disagree with him/?her?. Philosophies of government have to do with the role government should play and therefore, yes they have to do with social regulation but I specifically said social beliefs. Conservatism is none of the things in that list. In fact all of those things are distinctly liberal. I think that the modern idea of conservatism has been distorted by Neo-Conservatism which is misleading named and extremely liberal.
overmind25 (December 31, 1969 at 11:59 pm)
"Conservatism was always the philosophy of Nativism, Protectionism, Nationalism, Militarism, Altruism, Traditionalism, Mercantilism, Racism, Sexism, and Theocracy. The only reason why Conservatism became friendly with Individualism was to Combat Radicalism in the form of Communism, Political Correctness, and Forced Integration. Let us not forget that Political Conservatism is the enemy, not the friend of Libertarianism..." -Lysander Woods
overmind25 (December 31, 1969 at 11:59 pm)
Actually philosophies of government have a lot to do with social regulation. Liberals in the classic sense were for less government. It just depends on how you define the terms. Many US conservatives dont mind using the state to hinder social expressions when it suits them. I will give you a good quote.
Justheretosaythis (December 31, 1969 at 11:59 pm)
I disagree with the way you are using the term "Liberal". The terms Liberal and Conservative are used to describe philosophies of government and have little to nothing to do with social beliefs. Liberals want to use government to deliberately controlling a nation, making the state the central institution in all public life. Conservatives want smaller government whose main focus is national defense, and maybe, at most, public maintenance.
overmind25 (December 31, 1969 at 11:59 pm)
*in them
overmind25 (December 31, 1969 at 11:59 pm)
Libertarians are very "liberal" on the social issues like gay marriage, porn, drugs, and a mix on abortion. Libertarians are classic liberals, liberals that want freedom from coercive institutions. Many libertarians are for collectivist ideas but do not want to be forced to take part it them.
Justheretosaythis (December 31, 1969 at 11:59 pm)
Libertarians are not liberal, they are extremely conservative. They believe that smaller government leads to greater civil liberties. Libertarians want to see the size and scope of government reduced in every way. That is the opposite of liberal. It's probably the case that part of the reason our country doesn't work is that no one who votes understands even the most basic philosophies of government. They choose sides based on complete and utter misconceptions and social pressures. |
